SPECIAL MEETING WICHITA HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD MINUTES 16 APRIL 2001 CITY HALL, 455 N. MAIN, 10TH FLOOR-MAPD CONFERENCE ROOM 3:00 P.M. The regular meeting of the Historic Preservation Board was held Monday, April 16, 2000, 3:00 P.M. in the Metropolitan Area Planning Department's Conference Room, City Hall-Tenth Floor, 455 N Main, Wichita, Kansas. Members Present: Randal Steiner Paul Cavanaugh Claire Willenberg (in at 3:29) Jim Guy Keith Lawing Stan Shelden (in at 3:10) Absent: Sam Lentz Staff Present: Kathy Morgan, Historic Preservation Planner Valerie Robinson, Recording Secretary Mike Gable, OCI Residential Permits (in at 3:03) Ex Officio: Heidi Dressler-Kelly, City Historian Intern: Angela Hagar ITEM NO. 1 ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order and board members stated their name. ITEM NO. 2 ADDITIONS OR ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA MORGAN: I have one addition to the agenda HPC2001-00045 with a sign for Pilot Financial, Inc. CAVANAUGH: We will add that on as item #5 under Certificate of Appropriateness Applications. Since this is, a special meeting lets get right to it. ITEM NO. 3 CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS APPLICATIONS 1. MAJOR: (HPC2001-00038) Park Place/ Fairview District APPLICANT: Amelia Denton FOR: 1536 Park Place Applicant proposes to construct a 24' X 24' detached garage with cement/fiber siding. MORGAN: We have someone in the audience, Jim Hodges, if you would come to the microphone please. JIM HODGES: I'm with All Seasons Constructions. MORGAN: This is the front elevation of the house; you can see the driveway to the side. There is a pad, a practical pad and she wants to construct a new garage, 24 x 24 at that location. It is going to be cement fiber siding to match the profile of the siding on the house or close top it. HODGES: The siding on the house is about 2 5/8 exposure, that fiber, that hardy plank they call it is a 4" exposure. We are going to, if you can see the detail on the barge rafters, they have a bit mouth cut into them, we are planning to do that a and planning to use a tongue and groove decking at the edge to match up with what is on the home now. MORGAN: What is the height on the overall structure? HODGES: I have to think about that. I think about for a second. MORGAN: You have drawings of this. HODGES: I think approximately about 19' 6 to the peek. We are matching the roof pitch, which is a 10, 12. It will have a foundation, as stem wall roughly 18" above a grade to approximate what is on the house, although the one on the house is a block, our will be a poured concrete stem wall. MORGAN: Staff recommends that the board approve the construction of the new garage. STEINER: I would like to ask, whether there could be some similar trim around the windows and doors, that kind of wider 4 or 5" trim there. HODGES: I would not be opposed to doing that. One thing I forgot to mention, we are, instead of just putting one 16' wide door in the front, we are putting two, 9 x 7's because we just feel it is more in keeping with the style. MORGAN: We will add that the window trim and the door trim match the house. CAVANAUGH: Any further questions of Mr. Hodges? MORGAN: Let the record show that Mike Gable is in attendance. You do have a drawing; a site plan in your packet that shows where that existing slab is and where the new garage construction is going to be. STEINER: Maybe along with the trim, windows and the doors, I imagine a similar situation in those corners will be some wider trim pieces at the corners, with all of that and painted out the same, I think it would look very nice. CAVANAUGH: Is that acceptable Mr. Hodges HODGES: Yes it is. CAVANAUGH: All right thank you very much, I will bring the discussion back to the board. Anyone have any further comments. LAWING: Mr. Chairman seeing no further comments, I would move that we approve C of A 2001-00038 with the recommendation that there be similar trim on the windows, doors along with a wider trim on the corner and painted in a similar fashion. MOTION #1 (Lawing Motioned) (Steiner 2nd) Motion carried unanimously (4-0) MORGAN: We get out a letter to that effect out tomorrow and I will have Mike adjust the permit. 2. MAJOR: (HPC2001-00040) Environs North Topeka/ 10th St. District APPLICANT: Mid-America Exteriors, Inc. FOR: 1064 N. Market Applicant proposes to replace wood siding with vinyl siding. MORGAN: The house right over here is that gas station on Broadway, there is a parking lot area right here, there might even be a fast food restaurant that they can drive through that parking area, but this large white house, they are wanting to site it. It is within the Environs of the Topeka/10th St District. They would use 3" lap vinyl siding to match the profile of the existing. CAVANAUGH: Haven't we typically approved vinyl lap siding in an environs, as long as they stay with the keepings of the neighborhood. MORGAN: There looks like there is beaded board in the soffit here. But I can't tell that for sure, I remember I looked at it and I can't remember if that had already been sided or not. I think if we maintain the window profile, because there are some little Doric window lentils over these; if they maintain the trim, you know the profile of the trim, we have approved that before. CAVANAUGH: Do we just want to maintain the trim or do we want to maintain the wood material on the trim. What have we done in the past, have we let them cover up all of the trim with vinyl? STEINER: It seems like they have been putting up a J mold on the outside of the wood trim and then they have a nice place to stop the siding at. I think that is what I would rather see. On the porch columns, they would keep it as they are. MORGAN: We can request that they keep the porch columns remain original. I don't have anything on the application that says specifics. He didn't say anything about the trim or the porch columns, but we can sure add that in. LAWING: If he has a problem with it, he can come back next month. MORGAN: So it is the porch columns, and you don't want the trim around the windows and doors to be sided. CAVANAUGH That's right. STEINER: That's right. CAVANAUGH: And with those clarifications, I would move that we approve C of A 2001-00040. MOTION #2 (Cavanaugh Motioned) (Guy 2nd) Motion carried unanimously (4-0) 3. MAJOR: (HPC2001-00041) Environs Stackman Court Apartments APPLICANT: Gary Miller/ Sturdi-Bilt Storage Barns, Inc. FOR: 906 Buffum Applicant proposes to construct a pre-engineered storage barn. MORGAN: I believe I gave you a copy of the rendering it in your packet. They want to put a sturdy built storage barn behind the garage, on the backside. They are going to put it in this area right behind the garage. To give you an idea, this is from the backyard looking toward the main house. It is a bungalow, 3 1/2 " inch lap siding. I didn't take a picture of the main house. But it is going to be well hidden behind the garage. That is normally something that you all would approve. They do evidently meet the requirements of the setbacks. They have submitted their site plan anyway. CAVANAUGH: They can go over the property line, or is the centerline in the alley? MIKE GABLE: I didn't talk to this applicant, so I can't address that issue because I don't have the information in front of me. CAVANAUGH: Is there anyone here to speak to this issue? Will you come to the podium and tell us who you are. Explain how you can do this. LEONARD MORLAND: I am the owner of the property; Gary could not make it today. I am requesting a storage barn, which fits behind the garage. This area here is the same depth, the width will not encroach upon the right-of-way as far as I know. It meets City code as far as I know. GABLE: Has that alley been vacated? MORLAND: The alley is vacated. It has been vacated for years. GABLE: Is the sewer line still in that old alley? MORLAND: That I don't know, I have only lived there for 3 years. We still will not be encroaching upon the alley at all. GABLE: I didn't talk to the guy in OCI about this site plan. It indicates that it is encroaching upon the alleyway, which is an easement, if part of the alley was vacated. Since I didn't talk with Gary, I can't address it for sure. It may not be, but it cannot encroach the alley if the alley was left as an easement. That is why I was asking if you knew where the sewer main was. MORLAND: Actually this building itself, this house behind here, this is a house behind the storage building, the storage building would come out about as far as the house. GABLE: It maybe all right, I can't address it, I didn't look at the original. MORGAN: We can put that in the condition that the building does not encroach into the alley easement, even if it is vacated. GABLE: If there are utilities there then an easement right is retained. It may just be the way it was drawn that makes it looks that way. MORGAN: It doesn't look like the sit plan is drawn correctly to me. They don't even have the house drawn on this lot. They show the garage. CAVANAUGH: It is probably just a plat map and they don't have any structures indicated on here. Anything further Mr. Morland. What is your pleasure board? LAWING: I don't have problem with the request at all, as long as it does meet setback requirements. It seems like a worthwhile request. GUY: Is that a motion? LAWING: I was waiting to see if anyone was objecting to that sentiment. I would like to make a motion to approve C of A 2001-00041. With the condition, that it meets the City requirements for setbacks on the alley. MOTION #3 (Lawing Motioned) (Guy 2nd) Motion carried unanimously (5-0) MORGAN: I will get with Mr. Miller and make sure the setback requirements are meet. 4. MAJOR: (HPC2001-00044) Environs Davis Hall APPLICANT: Anthony Mork FOR: 2032 W. Maple Applicant proposes to repair front porch and relocate door. MORGAN: Would the applicant come and state your name. ANTHONY MORK: Owner MORGAN: Anthony is the applicant on this property. He is requesting to do some porch repair, and Anthony, you also talked to me about moving the door. ANTHONY MORK: Yes, where the door is at now, that used to be the living room and because I have a family moved in with me I made that a bedroom and the rest of the inside is as it is. I wanted to see what I need to do to move the door over to that window there and also, instead of using a plain door like that, I realize I have to bring it in and show you and get it approved it will be a later date. I main item right now is the front porch, but I do want approval to move that door over to where that window is and what is required for approval. MORGAN: The other thing that is going on is at some point there were two additional columns along this porch the roof is sagging and he need to take out this rod iron support and put back the two columns. The thing of it is, these piers are fluted, the fluting starts right about here and goes up to the capitol, and this is plain. There has been some kind of board added to the bottom. I don't know if it was starting to rout out or not. These column capitols have some detailing to it. I don't know that he could replicate that with any ease. It would be my suggestion or recommendation that he maintains these two existing original columns and repair them as is, and get new material and replicate, the wider at the bottom, probably not more than an 1" inch. MORK: I measured them out, they are seven ½ at the bottom and they tapered, and I have a licensed handy man. He said that he could duplicate. He has the routers to re-duplicate those. From my understanding there are two ways I could go, 1) with a solid beam, it is a 1 x 2 that is up their now, a box frame sitting in their. What I would like to do if possible, I tried to get the pictures of the porch of when it was first built; it is an inherited property. It used to be a short post, but where the railing is, used to be a column on the other side. I temporarily put that one in. This was before Davis Hall made this a Historical Area. I would like if possible to go back to two columns. MORGAN: Then you are going to replace the porch flooring with tongue and groove and you are redoing the joist of that porch right. MORK: The joist is in good condition unless there is some dry rot. I can't see that yet because I haven't torn the porch up yet. It is one solid beam that runs from this far end across, mind you this was built in the late 1800, late 1900 when the house was originally built, so they did not have any set standards. Even if I don't' have to replace the bottom support coming across, I would still like to put a support underneath, for reinforcement. MORGAN: There looks like there is some work that needs to be done to the foundation. MORK: Right, my uncle passed away before he ever got a chance to do anything. The original house, the brick that is under their now, was not there prior, they had a block on this side and this side and from where I can tell from where the steps are that was also part of the support, but I'm no 100%. However, lattice went from the ground all the way to the top. He pulled all of that off, and laid the bricks in there. What I was going to do if it is okay, I know I have to put up footing down, especially if those bricks are going stay to help keep it from settling. In addition, I have my permit for that part, along with the gentleman that is going to help me, we are going to concrete those up so that they meet City code. I'm not sure of what I can and can't do. CAVANAUGH: You are going to put concrete footings underneath the two new columns that you are going to put in. MORK: We are going to embrace all of that. The original columns were just setting on the porch itself. The tongue and grooves are still there. What he had done was used that pressed board on top, cause he was going to redo the whole porch, but he moved out. He had painted it good, however it is deteriorating. It would be cheaper if it went back to its originality. CAVANAUGH: What are you going to do with the stone between the porch and the ground? MORK: Yes that is actual stone, it originally never had any stone other than on the two corners under the columns. I don't know if you can by it anymore. The length of that going across is 22' x 3" inches, and it is a 2 x 6 or 2 x 8 is what is on their now. I want to support the center of that, as I said I don't know if we do have to replace that floor joist or not. I have not pulled it out, from what I have seen it does not look like it has rotted, but I am assuming since it has been there for almost 100 years, I can't say that there are not any problems. I do want to replace that, since the stone is there now, I am going to concrete that in. I don't know if I can use regular mortar mix or a special mortar that I have to use with that being a stone, and the gentleman helping me is checking into that. CAVANAUGH: The only thing I would be concerned about is if you concrete up that porch sidewall, is trapping moisture underneath and creating more problems in the long run. Would you consider a concrete block with some block vent into that crawl space just to allow moisture to get through there MORK: I will do it that away, but how was that again. STEINER: You need to get some ventilation going through there. If you completely seal it up you may have more trouble, quickly. It will keep moisture under there and it will rot out what you have just replaced. What Paul is suggesting is that you can get those CMU blocks, they are 8 x 8 x 16 and some of them are made with a split face or stone appearance on the exterior, but then you would either space them so that you leave some gaps, you see that around often. In addition, they make them with vents in them that is a possibility as well. Ventilation would be the key. MORK: On the eastside he left that open, I was going to screen that in or something, but I realized it would have to be one on the other side or a couple of them. However, I am willing to do that also. I don't want to put the money into it and six months later, have to redo it again. MORGAN: You also wanted to move the door to the window, do you have the materials to match the lap siding. MORK: Yes that is a standard through Home Dupo, I have to special order it. STEINER: Would the stairs stay where they are now? MORK: If possible I would like to move the stairs by the door, but there again I don't know what I can or cannot do. That is why I am here today to find out what we can and cannot do. MORGAN: Do the steps need to be replaced? MORK: No the steps themselves are in good condition. It is solid concrete. CAVANAUGH: As far as relocating the steps I don't that is a problem, it would be a chunk of work to knock that existing situation out of there, but if you need to move it I don't think that is an issue. STEINER: It seems that if he is going to put those columns back, one on either side of the steps, then if he moves the steps, it might look fine, but at least how the house was, there were step in the center planked by columns, and the railing, it would kind of change those lines overall. It doesn't seem even with the doors was moved to the place where the window is, it seems like trying to keep the stairs in the center is not a lot of extra steps over to the door, at least to me that is a better choice. MORGAN: It is a little off center. This is a little wider than this. MORK: Where these posts were, they were sitting from the corner they were 76" from the inside of that post out. The four posts where the spacing in between all four of the post, the two outside and the two being put up in will be a 76" from the inside of the outside post to the center. CAVANAUGH: The post will be equally spaced. MORK: Yes sir, the post will be equally spaced. GUY: That wouldn't be so much of a problem. MORGAN: What process should he take, does he need to do the steps before he does the work on the porch. STEINER: The thing I would see is if the post are going to be spaced so that it is 76" off each end. I'm not sure where those steps will fall in going up and it looks like on of the columns might be somewhere within those steps, just looking at the photographic, maybe not though. MORK: It will be centered in between the two. It will be 76 inches from this side to this side comes to right here, which would leave spacing in between here. As far as being off center where the off center might be, is from this part, with 76 inches, the original post was inset right here on this side of the step. I meant to bring my blueprint of the porch, but had another appointment and didn't have a chance to go back and get it, but it shows how all three openings are pretty well centered. LAWING: Mr. Mork, let me ask you what is your preference, if you move the door down there, do you want to move those steps in front of the door? MORK: My preference is if I could be allowed to do it, I would like to do it. LAWING: So you are ready to take on that task. MORK: My main task at this point and time is the porch, but it would be easier to do the step part would be easier than to set everything in have to go back through and reset it up. STEINER: Understanding that, it would be fine for those stairs to be moved over so, it would line up with the door. Railing wise it looks less than a 30" drop, so I would like to see something along the same line as is there, put back and you will need railings down the stairs. LAWING: Kathy, tell us this, I don't want to require Mr. Mork to come back here if we don't have to, what do we need to do to approve this project and move it forward, or is that an option. Are we maybe going to have to approve part of it, if possible I would like to get it all in one job. MORGAN: I don't see why you can't approve all of it. I would approve as is, if you want to move the door and then he can just bring back a residential door style, it needs to be a wood door. I don't know what you want to do about any window light in the door or do you want it to be a solid panel. Have you thought about that Mr. Mork? Do you want window lights in the door? MR. MORK: What I would like to do is put in the oval style that they used to put in the doors. I would like to stay within the guidelines, MORGAN: So you want a residential door with oval glass in the door, a kick plat on the door, 8" rails on either side, etc. Why not get a rendering from Home Dupo and bring it back. CAVANAUGH: I would like the staff to approve that door, rather than bring it back to the board. Any other conversation board? SHELDEN: It is nice to see you want to fix this up and we appreciate you becoming before us and trying to get it done right. CAVANAUGH: Do we have a motion? LAWING: Give us a recap. MORGAN: The original columns are to stay in place and be repaired; two new columns will be replicated including the fluting and as near as you can to the column capitols. The porch flooring is to be repaired using tong and grove. Will see about using either existing stones or putting in CMU's with venting. On the foundation, he can repair the joist flooring as needed. The door is to be relocated to the east window of the porch and Mr. Mork is to bring back a rendering of the residential door he wished to replace with staff approval. MOTION #4 (Shelden Motioned) (Guy 2nd) Motion carried unanimously (6-0) STEINER: I would like to add to that, that the railing on the porch would also be similar to what is already there. MORGAN: Also match the siding to where it covers the original door opening to match the existing. MOTION #5 Accepts amendments to motion (Shelden Motioned) (Guy 2nd) Motion carried unanimously (6-0) CAVANAUGH: We have an added item C of A 2001-00045. 5. MAJOR: (HPC2001-00045) Environs Lawson Hotel APPLICANT: Bill Schiffelbein FOR: 201 N Market MORGAN: There were signs that were locate at this area and then one right here on this wall, what he is wanting to do, you can see the holes where they were drilled for that sign. He is requesting to put up a new sign, aluminum, and white background, with vinyl letters. Is that correct? BILL SCHIFFELBEIN: Yes. I'm with L B Signs and Graphics and I am doing a copy change for Pilot Financial, consequently I have the layout here with me if you would like to review that. MORGAN: Is it the same, and then they have a copy of that. It is a white background. SCHIFFELBEIN: It is a white background. MORGAN: the letters are purple and the accent colors are gold. SCHIFFELBEIN: Actually the vinyl is navy blue, with gold SHELDEN: So these are going to fit directly over where the former signs were. SCHIFFELBEIN: Yes MORGAN: It is not going to be a can sign is it? SCHIFFELBEIN: No it is not going to project off the wall. It is just going to come of the wall 1/8 of an inch. CAVANAUGH: It is not going to be lighted, externally or internally. SCHIFFELBEIN: No. It is more of an informational setting form. STEINER: What sort of frame is on the sign, that holds the whole thing together? SCHIFFELBEIN: What I am going to use are mortar bits, 1", into the mortar itself. it is just a side plate itself, unattached, on the south and on the east side of the wall. STEINER: So the sign plate is made out of metal. SCHIFFELBEIN: Aluminum, it won't rust. CAVANAUGH: Anything else you would like to add. SCHIFFELBEIN: Not at this current time. CAVANAUGH: Any questions board, I will bring the discussion back to the board. LAWING: Unless there are any objections, I move that we approve C of A 2001-00045. MOTION #6 (Lawing Motioned) (Shelden 2nd) Motion carried unanimously (6-0) MORGAN: I will get this to J.R. so that you can pick this up in the morning. MORGAN: Those are all the items for the major and minors. ITEM NO. 4 MISCELLANEOUS MATTERS 1. Board Retreat- April 30, 3-7:30 pm, Wichita/Sedgwick County Historical Museum MORGAN: Just a reminder about the retreat, we are going to have that catered, and we will start at 3:00. We will be talking about some of the items we need to discuss for the upcoming year. We are working with the City Archaeologist. The city would like to improve Grove Park and we have an archeology site out there. We are getting to do a dig, or at least do sampling. The City Archaeologist will come and give us a report on that and either myself or Tonia Fairbanks who is the environmental review staff person will be on site. There were some topics of conversation about the conference that Randal, or Claire wanted to discuss. I can't think of anything else that staff has discussed, that we need to tackle in the next year. We would like to think about some more training opportunities, like at the conference. Technical, hands on information. Bring some feedback. We are still looking for the state tax credit. I understand that the governor has not signed the bill yet. The are getting a lot of pressure not to pass any bills that have any financial impact, of course they aren't looking at the bottom line that they are going to get a 22% return on the tax credit. They are just looking from the standpoint of cutting somebody taxes. CAVANAUGH: I would encourage also, for the board retreat to think of way to improve the procedures that we operate under. If you can think of anything that could help us be more responsive, and efficient it would be nice to bring it up at the retreat. Another thing I wanted to say to Kathy and her staff did on the preservation conference. It was spectacular. STEINER: It made our City look very, very good I thought. MORGAN: Thank you, it was a lot of work, I don't think I will do it for a while. GUY: It has been 8 years since we did the last one. MORGAN: Six, I think, in 94. We have been requested to do another seminar workshop like that by several people. I think we are going to try to do something in about 15 months, a symposium for terracotta, tile and concrete construction. WILLENBERG: I know many people are wanting to get you out to the smaller towns. MORGAN: Thanks goodness they haven't started calling me yet. CAVANAUGH: With that we are adjourned. Meeting adjourned at 2:50. SPECIAL MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD MINUTES APRIL 16, 2001 Page 11 of 11 1